--- On Fri, 4/9/10, joel carlinsky <joelcarlinsky@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: joel carlinsky <joelcarlinsky@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: cloudbusting
To: jwdatwork@yahoo.com
Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 1:02 PM
It was Trevor Constable who made the claim to direct lightning. I only figured out how he did it. And I posted that info with all details to my orgonescience list TWICE. You received at least two invitations to join that list, but chose not to. I am not keeping it secret. If you want to know how it was done, just ask me. But please do not expect me to anticipate a question you did not ask.
I doubt anyone left alive has been doing cloudbusting longer than I have except Blasband, and he has now given it up since he became a follower of a Russian guru. I started in 1967, and as far as I know, nobody is left alive who has been in the field longer.
There is one person I can think of who probably knows more about it than I do, and she is not likely to have ever heard of you or any of your friends. She is into working with LIFE not mechanistic gadgetry based on mechanistic physics theories.
I have no idea what plans you are saying you are not at liberty to reveal, since you did post the plans for your cloudbuster in your article. So which plans do you think I asked about? I did not ask anything about any plans since I assumed I had already seen them. I only pointed out that it looked like you were witholding details on what you did, not any plans for equipment with which you did it.
I actually have no objection to your witholding the description of how you conducted the operation. In fact, I fully agree. You are absolutely right to keep that info off the web. But if you do, you should be aware that it removes your report from the catagory of a scientific report and makes it anecdotal as far as any scientist is concerned. I was not criticizing. I was just pointing that out and asking for clarification of if that was what your motive was or not.
I do not agree with the concepts and terminology you used in your report. There is no concept in orgonomy of a standing comumular wave, and there is no possible way an orop could have long-lasting effects in the way you describe. What I think must have happened is that for some reason unknown, a moderate DOR barrier had recently formed upstream from your location. You do not mention anything about what was happening to the west of you, or to the north or south of you, or what happened during your operations, or what the atmospheric conditions were when you started or what they were afterwards, but my best guess is that you succeeded in draining off enough of a localized DOR field that was obstructing the flow of orgone into the lake basin, so that the normal west to east flow was able to reasert itself. That is the only way you could have had a long-lasting result.
You do not mention doing any readings of atmospheric pulsation or DOR-intensity. But since I know desertification and droughts are caused by DOR, I must conclude DOR-removal is what you did, regardless of if you were thinking in those terms or not. In any case, it worked, so you must have done something right.
And please note that I did not accuse you of doing any environmental harm. As far as I know, you did not. But that might have been just sheer luck. Next time, it might be a good idea to consult someone with some experience at cloudbusting, note, CLOUDBUSTING, not "electronic weather control", before you assume you know all about it. It might also be a good idea to talk to an ecologist before trying to do anything that is intended to have a long term effect.
As for your friends, I think I can guess who they are. But if they are not using cloudbusters and are using some electronic box instead, I have no interest in what they are doing or think they are doing. I am interested in cloudbusting. I am not interested in some claim of an electronic box that is alleged to control weather.
Orgone energy is not electronic and the weather is an orgone energy phenomena. The cloudbuster can affect orgone potentials in the atmosphere. Any effect on weather is only a side-effect, not the goal of an operation. Orgone energy is a living form of energy. Cloudbusting has much more in common with biology than with electronics. You did not say if you were even noticing what the biological effects of you work were, but I suspect you did not. It is not your area of interest.
In any case, no electronic device can do what a cloudbuster does. Any electromagnetic high voltage source can, in fact, does, affect local weather. All high-voltage devices have a mild oranurization effect on the locality. Radar dishes, microwave antenas, radio and TV broadcasting antenas, big generators and transformers., and cross-country high-tension powerlines, all do it. I once sat under a high-voltage powerline and watched clouds break up all afternoon one day. They all broke up at exactly the same spot, every time, none anyplace else.
So if your friends have discovered some such effect of some electronic device, that is nothing new or important. It has no relationship to what a cloudbuster does. Jerry, you are a smart guy. You are probably the worlds ranking expert on free-energy motors, etc. You are rightly very skeptical of a claim in that field that is not backed up by evidence. Why is it any different if I am equally skeptical of a claim in a field which I have studied for many years and know a lot about? More to the point, why are YOU not skeptical of such a claim, just as you would be of a claim in the free-energy field?
You know enough about free energy devices to evaluate any new claims you hear. Well, I know enougfh about cloudbusting to evaluate any claims I hear about cloudbusting. And just as you would not accept any new claim of a free energy device that contravened what you know about such devices and the science behind them, I do not accept any new claim of a breakthrough in cloudbusting that runs counter to known facts of how the orgone field of this planet functions unless solid evidence is presented.
I know what I know. And that includes the fact, and it IS a fact, that no electronic device can do what the Reich cloudsbuster does. But what a cloudbuster does is not to "break up clouds" That is just one relatively unimportant side-effect of cloudbusting. And the cloudbuster can, in fact, do that in two very different ways.
The terminology is because of the history of the device. Breaking up clouds was the first phenomena of cloudbusting discovered, and the name has stuck. But other phenomena have been discovered since, and the people who are not familiar with the field see the name "cloudbuster" and think that is what the device does and what it is for.
Cloudbusting is an integral part of the science of orgonomy. That is the study of the biological energy. Which also happens to be the classical ether. Which is the original form of energy in the universe from which all the forms of energy known to classical physics are derived. It is a waste of time to try to work with a cloudbuster in isolation from the other orgone phenomena around it. It has nothing to do with such concepts as "weather modification".
"Weather modification" if it could be done, severed from its roots in the understanding of the atmospheric energy that underlies the weather, would be the worst possible environmental disaster. But there is a very slight risk of it happening. About on the same order of risk as the chance that we might find out the earth is cube-shaped.
About 20 years ago, a man named Preston Nichols sent me what he claimed was a circuit diagram for an electronic weather control device which he claimed was invented by Wilhelm Reich! He claimed Reich made it for the CIA while employed by them! This was such obvious BS that I never did bother to get back to him on it. But it was obvious that no electrical engineer could have ever constructed anything from the plans he sent me.
There are several groups to be found on the internet that claim to have some elecronic method of weather control. I do not mean the crackpots who think the government is secretly controling the weather with the HAARP array in Alaska, or the fans of Tom Beradon, who has been promoting his Soviet weather control hysteria for decades. I mean groups who claim to have actually made some hardware and done it themselves. One such group claims a thing called a "Joe cell" has an effect on weather. Another calls themselves the Weather Rangers.
Such people delude themselves quite easily when they first see the mild oranur effect from an elecromagnetic source disipate a cloud that they have found a way to control weather electronicly. They usually reason that all they have to do to create a cloud is reverse the "polarity" or some such thing. The rest is the normal human tendency that you know all too well from your contact with free energy inventors. They convince themselves the thing MUST work because they are so sure they have a correct theory. And they then convince those around them because they are so absolutely certain and honest about it.
So, I am willing to attend a demonstration, but until I have seen what is going on or at least seen some report that tells enough of how the process works that it would be possible to understand what it is doing, my position will remain that no electronic weather control device is possible. And none ever will be because weather is orgonotic, not electronic.
--- On Wed, 4/7/10, Jerry <jwdatwork@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- On Wed, 4/7/10, Jerry <jwdatwork@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Jerry <jwdatwork@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: cloudbusting
To: "joel carlinsky" <joelcarlinsky@yahoo.com>
Cc: "Chuck Henderson" <chenders1@verizon.net>
Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 5:28 PM
Hola Joel!
I posted just enough about my experiment for my purposes...never claimed to be an expert...and I have an entirely different set of friends and understanding than you....so my information might not fit your frames of reference.
I have received several emails of support and personal experiences with their own experiments that confirm mine.
I know how fanatical you are about your version of orgonomy so I didn't say anything as I figured it would set you off with clarifications and wanting to instruct me...
I can't remember one single thing you've ever told me in the past that was technical or had enough information to do anything with it or prove it...
Your claim of being able to direct lightning and all your experiments in cloudbusting..not one word about details and not one reference where you had documented any of it for study by anyone...just your word...so now you want me to tell you everything??? Why should I?
I promised the people who sent me my plans I would not post them on the net or pass them around...they have been doing weather modification with a secret group for many years, far, far longer than you and with successes beyond what anyone remotely suspects.
A small group of us in Dallas found a direct correlation to their claims that we have created and tested many times. I think it could be the inner secret of Reich that none of his adherents even suspect.
I met them many years ago at a conference and we have stayed in touch many years and swapped information...so when I was ready to come to Mexico and do the experiment, they offered to give me a copy of the technique they used for so many years.
So I'm not at liberty to give out all the details...a matter of trust and respect.
Anyway....did my thing, worked as intended and no negative effects lo these many years.
There is a new electronic device, roughly a foot square which claims to produce or dissipate rain within a 20 mile radius...the inventor is friggin BRILLIANT and refuses to give out the details or sell them for fear many people dicking with the weather would hose it worldwide...and I agree with him...luckily he sent me a copy of the plans and details about his and a tight group of trusted friends, experiments...all I can say is WOW!!!
Only one other electronic device I know of worked like this, I had discovered the plans in some very old documents and sent them to him...he built and tested it and it so phreaked out my friend who built it that he dissassembled it and buried the parts...he said it was just too dangerous to be messing with....it had a lot of other amazing effects than weather, thats what scared him....
Anyway....we only see the tips of icebergs....I happen to agree that full details of such things shouldn't be posted for any dick to play with...but parts of it can be posted and those who are serious will fill in the rest...hopefully they won't be scuzbags and sell it or use it to cause harm...intentionally or by not considering all the ramifications.
Sorry Joel, as much as you think you know about orgonomy and Reich...I don't think you hold a candle to my secret friends....they are now old and retired...possibly dead...haven't heard from them in about 5 years now...guess I should check up on them to see if they are still around.
Wonder how much information and discoveries have been lost because we don't or CAN'T post everything we and others know?
Please don't get me embroiled with your groups or their adherents...what I did has been posted and thats enough for me. I have no interest in arguing with or being chastized by people I don't know about my experiment. It's none of their business...they can do their own experiments and share them or not...
Just too many other fascinating things to study and experiment with...I might try that electronic device just to see if it does what the inventor says, but no solid plans for it at this point.
Good luck with your projects!
--- On Wed, 4/7/10, joel carlinsky <joelcarlinsky@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: joel carlinsky <joelcarlinsky@yahoo.com>
Subject: cloudbusting
To: jwdatwork@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 6:40 AM
Hi, Jerry,
I read your report on your cloudbusting project. I have several questions. I am sending this to you off-list because I suspect some of the omissions were intentional.
You go into good detail about your equipment and how it was grounded, but do not say anything about what you did with it. What direction you drew from, at what angle of elevation, for how long, etc. This is the same policy DeMeo follows, originated by Blasband, to prevent anyone from learning how to do cloudbusting. At least that is how it looks to me. Or was it just an oversight on your part to leave out the very information someone would need to try to replicate what you did? You did mention the importance of replicability in the article, so I do not think it was an oversight. Was it?
You also somehow managed to write an entire article on cloudbusting without any reference to the orgone energy continuuum which is the real object of the cloudbusting, the effects on weather being only a side-effect, and not always the most noticeable or most important. I do not think this was an accident either. I think you wanted to get the idea accross that the theory is not important and only the actula results count. That is the traditional engineering claim, and is what I think you had in mind here.
I also would like to know who are these unnamed "experts" you consulted. I can think of a few people I would consider experts on cloudbusting, but none of them are likely to be known to you. And none of them would have used any such terminology as "standing colomnuar wave". Also, none of them would claim a change in normal atmospheric patterns could be caused that would persist for years. That simply is not how the atmosphere works.
The only way a long-term change in atmosphric orgone pulsation can be produced with a cloudbuster is by removal of a DOR barrier that has been obstructing normal flow. This is what I would suspect you did in Mexico, judging by your results. I would think a DOR barrier had formed in the region, and intentionally or not, you removed it, allowing normal flow to resume. That is a much simpler hypothesis than a new, previouslñy unknown phenomena of a cloudbuster somehow being able to set up new, long-lasting changes in weather patterns since it relies only on already known and substanciated observations of how cloudbusting actually works.
The people who make claims about long-term weather changes and use terminology derived from electromagnetic theory like "standing collomular wave" are people who do not understand orgone energy, do not understand the role of DOR in droughts and desert formation, and are not people I would consider experts in the field of cloudbusting.
In the past, you have sometimes accused me of being negative and trying to tear people down without sufficient cause, so I am sending you this privately so you can decide if it should be posted to your list or not. I am not trying to be hypercritical; only to set the facts straight as I see them.
I am also going to send it to a few people I know who are knowledgeable about orgone energy and ask for them to comment.
Joel
Hi, Jerry,
You could not have picked a worse time to send this, since my computer access is limited at the moment, so this will not be all I have to say on the subject, but the rest will have to wait.
First, if you intended to write a scientific report, it would help if you included what you did. I see a good detailed description of your equipment, but no information on what direction you drew from, at what angle of elevation, for how long. Nobody could duplicate what you did from your report. I suspect this was intentional, and you are deliberately witholding this information to prevent what Eva Reich used to call "wildcatting".
Second, in your entire report, there is no mention of the word "orgone" or any indication of how the device described is supposed to accomplish what it does. This would lead any scientist who read it without prior knowledge of cloudbusting to dismiss it as mysticism.
Third, you do not say if the low water level was caused by shortfall of rain or by too many farmers drawing water from the lake for irrigation. Some rainfall statistics would be helpfull in evaluating the results.
Forth, you do not say who the "experts" you consulted are, but I can guess from what you say they told you. The ideas of Trevor Constable and his following are not the consensus in orgonomy and should be treated with extreme caution.
To be precise: long-term changes in weather are not possible and the effects of cloudbusting last only a few days to a few weeks at most. The exception is if a DOR barrier is removed, allowing the natural flow to rtesume.
Fifth, you do not mention DOR. Droughts do not "just happen". They have a cause. The cause is DOR. The best cloudbusting is to do DOR-removal. This is the way to restore normal atmospheric pulsation. You may have done DOR removal, either intentionally or by accident, but your report does not mention it.
Sixth, you also do not mention any biological paramaters of the starting conditions or of your results. Did you pay any attention at all to what was happening to plants and animals or to how you or others were feeling while you were working? Cloudbusting is more than meteorology. It is biology. The most important factors are biological ones, not what the weather does. Changes in weather are only a side effect of cloudbusting.
Seventh point, did you take any readings of changes in the orgone field while you were operatingf? Did you pound two nails into a tree about two meters apart and use a volt meter to check the difference in voltage between them to see what effect you were having on plant life when you elevated the pipes? Did you use a light meter to see if there were changes in light intensity when you operated?
Joel
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